Analyzing the Knicks’ and the NBA’s 2023 trade deadline
The Knicks got Josh Hart. The rest of the NBA went absolutely bonkers, and only a handful of teams left the NBA’s trade deadline the same as they started. The Strickland’s staff got together again to take a look around now that all the dust has settled.
Assuming the Knicks acquired Josh Hart – repped by the same CAA agents as Julius Randle, college teammate of Jalen Brunson and Tom Thibodeau’s platonic dream of an off-guard – intending to re-sign him this summer, who’s he replacing in the nine-man rotation? What are your feelings about that?
Miranda: I worry the addition of a guard who defends and rebounds will make trading Immanuel Quickley an easier pill for the front office to swallow. Quickley’s development since arriving in New York City has notes of Peter Parker after the spider bite starts turning him into Spider-Man: some of his powers take longer to click than others, there’s a struggle to balance what he feels he can do versus what the world will let him, and the sum of his strength is greater than it appears while isolated. I don’t want to trade him. But it’s easier now than it was earlier in the week.
Drew: I think The Professor has the right idea, but picked the wrong player. This trade makes RJ Barrett more expendable in a potential star trade over the next few years. Let me be clear: I do not want to trade RJ Barrett. As frustrating as he’s been on defense while still just not finding any consistency being efficient on offense, those two things getting cleaned up makes Barrett a legitimate two-way wing with All-Star impact. Personally, I’m fine waiting this out a few more years to see if it clicks. There’s also an argument for the opposite: it’s been three-plus seasons of being consistently inconsistent and the flashes aren’t sustained for long enough stretches. You could effectively copy my OG Anunoby argument from our previous roundtable, change the name to Josh Hart, add a “Villanova connection” somewhere and there you go.
Shwinnypooh: My feelings are they added a good player, at a bit of an overpriced fee who immediately makes them a better team. He’s going to replace Deuce McBride’s “spot” in the rotation and probably siphon a few minutes apiece from Brunson, Quickley, RJ, and Quentin Grimes. I’m very okay with that, but is that the role he’ll be in long-term? Maybe. He wasn’t a starter until the last two seasons, so are we sure starting is the absolute most important thing to him? I’m skeptical. Obviously we know this front office isn’t done acquiring the necessary talent to contend, but I’m less sold that Hart’s acquisition iimmediately portends moving one of the younger players.
Collin: I’m really excited about the Hart addition. I know the lot of us went into the trade deadline with the same mindset: make a deal if you can make an upgrade. That being said, whether it’s Jericho Sims or McBride’s minutes who decline (or completely vanish), this an upgrade in every sense. McBride’s had some nice shooting moments the last few games, but Hart is more of a Quickley-caliber, do-a-little-bit-of-everything impact player on both sides of the floor. There’s a reason he had the best on/off splits in Portland. He’s also a far better shooter than this season – and his 21% shooting over the last 10 games – would indicate. This acquisition falls perfectly in-between marginal and blockbuster. 10/10 would recommend.
Alex: I actually don’t agree with Shwin re: it being a little overpriced to get Hart. If anything, the more I think about it, if this is a guy the Knicks knew they’d be interested in come the summer, I think they saved themselves some assets by making the move now. The Knicks currently have Julius Randle, Jalen Brunson, and RJ Barrett all slated to make roughly $25 million each on average next year, Mitchell Robinson making around $16 million, Evan Fournier making $19 million, Isaiah Hartenstein making $8 million, and the rookie deals of Quentin Grimes, Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin, Deuce McBride, and Jericho Sims still on the books. Basically, they’re capped out, so they’d have to either pay some capital to get off of Fournier (and maybe Hartenstein?) to create cap space, or execute a sign-and-trade that probably would have cost about the same (or maybe more) than what they paid for Hart. Instead, now they have the Bird rights to Hart, which allows them to pay him whatever they want. So I’ve kinda warmed up to the price they paid if this is a guy they were dead set on anyway.
To answer the actual question at hand… I think he takes Deuce’s minutes, and lops a little off the top of Grimes’ and RJ’s minutes. I don’t think it’ll be too controversial or anything, and he should make the team better!
How did you feel about the rumored price for Zach LaVine yesterday vs. the deals floated last summer for Donovan Mitchell?
Miranda: I totally fell for a fake trade that left me raging. Turns out Shams Charanta isn’t on the level.
[Editor’s note: There would be a tweet embedded here, but Shams Charanta has sadly been suspended. RIP.]
Shortly before this sham of a Shams shamed me, other more reputable sources mentioned Grimes as the source of the loggerhreads keeping the two teams apart. I gotta say: I didn’t feel the Knicks should match the price for Mitchell then, and I’m glad no Knick with a Q in their name was traded yesterday, either. Mitchell wasn’t worth what he’d cost this franchise at this point in their journey; LaVine is even less appropriate for them. The Knicks are good enough that they’re not beggars. They can be choosers.
Drew: I am happy that I missed this rumor because I would have not been happy in the slightest knowing that this New York Knicks team wanted to overpay for the much worse version of Donovan Mitchell. Plus, Quickley and Grimes are better than Lavine. There’s a take for you.
Shwinnypooh: Zach Lavine is a Ponzi scheme of a player. All the surface-level numbers look great, and then when you peel away the layers it lays bare just how meaningless those numbers are. He’s a garbage defender and makes Julius look like a genius in crunch time. The guy is on a max contract and has never established himself as a clear net-positive player. His production will never match his salary, and you don’t win in the NBA limiting your flexibility by cashing in chips to acquire a player underperforming a massive deal.
Collin: I don’t care to ever see LaVine in a Knicks uniform. But if anything, I think this speaks to a lack of patience, perhaps, with young Rowan. While he may represent the Knicks’ third 20-plus PPG scorer, compared to LaVine, he’s a lesser talent in terms of efficiency.
Barrett: 33% from three, 48% from two, 75% from the free throw line (53% TS)
LaVine: 37% from three, 54% from two, 82% from the free throw line (59% TS)
Thibodeau and the front office, while not ultimately coming to a deal for a more efficient scorer than RJ, at the very least explored the idea. Ian Begley says talks could resume in the offseason, but if Barrett has a good back half of the season, I’d be shocked if that proved the case – whether for LaVine or any of the league’s available premium scorers.
Alex: I’m glad it didn’t come together, and I’m not even as down on LaVine as a player as most here. I just think he’s more akin to, like, Monta Ellis than he is to even Donovan Mitchell. So if it’s gonna cost anything even close to what it cost for Mitchell to get LaVine, count me out. His scoring is amazing, but you need a lot of flexibility elsewhere to make a roster that can make up for his defensive deficiencies.
The Knicks currently have nine players under contract next season: Randle, Brunson, RJ Barrett, Mitchell Robinson, Evan Fournier, Isaiah Hartenstein, Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin and Quentin Grimes. Three Knicks have team options next season: Deuce McBride, Jericho Sims and Derrick Rose. Hart holds a player option. What area would be your primary focus to improve the roster for 2023-24?
Miranda: I would look to either make RJ the sixth man or else see what kind of package I could headline with him to bring back a star. My preference would be to see the Knick bench, behind Barrett, rain hellfire down on all the other, loser teams. If he balks at that, I find out what I can pair him with to get back in a trade. The Knicks need an on-ball wing who can consistently defend and shoot from outside.
Drew: Outside of a potential star trade, the team should be focused on trading Fournier this offseason and internal growth from all the players and coaches. This team is already good as is. What they’re lacking is either a true, legitimate, bona fide star to shift both Randle and Brunson down to maximize their impact. The other route that is a possibility is the 2004 Detroit Pistons approach, where the RJ role is upgraded and the team has three legitimate All-Star impact players, though not All-NBA First Team, and plays great defense paired with an efficient offense (Knicks are currently sixth in ORTG, by the way). Whether that “third banana” role is filled by an improved Barrett, Quickley or Grimes is to be determined. But with Brooklyn imploding, the East opens up and the Knicks have the talent to take that spot. Just keep the good vibes going.
Shwin: It’s time to shit or get off the pot as it applies to Obi Toppin, which is less about the player and more about the franchise’s failure to get Thibs to play him more regardless of Randle’s presence. He will be entering the final year of his rookie contract, and the Knicks still don’t have the type of modern big wing that gives you a bit more lineup flexibility and defensive versatility. I have been advocating for playing Obi and Randle together at the forward spots to see if that was viable, but we won’t see it under this coach, and it seems likely he’ll stay. So ultimately that is where I’d be focused on: finding a deal for Obi that returns value, assuming his status quo in terms of playing time remains unchanged – as sad as that makes me.
Collin: Shooting, shooting, shooting. I loved the idea of bringing in Gary Trent Jr. at the deadline, but apparently Masai Ujiri can’t come to the phone right now. He’ll be a free agent this summer, and I’d be more than happy to pay the going rate for a three-point specialist nowadays. He’d be an upgrade over Fournier on the defensive end and add some guaranteed scoring to an uncertain bench unit, as it stands today. New York is 23rd in three-point percentage, 8th in makes and 15th in attempts per game, signaling (or red flagging, rather) a big need. But I also anticipate Grimes is more than a league-average shooter, as he’s shown this season.
Alex: As I mentioned above, short of spending some capital to get off of Fournier and others, I think this coming offseason will be one of the first in a while where the Knicks don’t come in flush with cap space expecting to make much of a splash. I’d try to use Dallas’ first-rounder this year to add a project wing, hopefully someone kinda in the 3-4 tweener range that can defend. Otherwise, I’d kinda just keep my ear to the ground regarding a star becoming available. And not a Zach LaVine level guy, either. Luckily for the Knicks, I think the Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving deals kind of reset the star market after the stupid Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell trades had inflated the market to an annoying degree. If this team keeps playing at a 50ish win pace the rest of the year like they have since the shift to the 9-man rotation, the next logical step is to try to make that level-up move.
Most trade deadlines are all sizzle, no steak. This time around, multiple balance-of-power tilters changed teams in a frenzy that saw literally just about the entire league make moves. What move(s) stood out to you especially, and why?
Miranda: The Clippers adding Bones Hyland and Eric Gordon. Los Angeles were already a marvel of across-the-board talent, then they go and add two microwave scorers, one extremely well-seasoned, the other barely older than veal. They filled another need in trading for Miles Mason Marshall Plumlee, a better-than-fine backup big. For a lotta reasons — their historical ineptitude; their ability to pull superstars in a way the Knicks never have; their charitable stance on load management — I’m as interested in the Clippers’ storyline than any team outside the Knicks. They were a dark horse contender before the deadline and are only stronger now. So why can’t I shake the feeling it won’t change anything in the end?
Drew: I do appreciate The Professor providing actual basketball analysis here because I’m obviously going with the Kyrie Irving deal. The NBA’s preeminent “free thinker” being traded to an organization that couldn’t care less about women and located in a state that doesn’t have the funds to improve their energy grid but can afford to send migrants to different states to “own the libs.” How many years does Luka Dončić have left on his deal?
Shwin: The obvious move is the Kevin Durant trade to Phoenix, but I’ll go with the Warriors pulling the plug on their grand experiment with James Wiseman. Trading the second overall selection not even three full seasons into his career for a smorgasbord of second-round picks, then parlaying those directly into Gary Payton II, who you let walk in free agency just this past summer, is very much eating a sunk cost and moving on. It’s hard to spin it as a win, given they could’ve just drafted LaMelo Ball, but at least they got out of the business of trying to justify an obvious failure and brought back a piece that was critical to their title triumph last year.
Collin: Let’s go back to L.A., just not the shameful stepsister franchise. I’m once again buying into a LeBron James-led team being able to turn it around after the trade deadline. D’Angelo Russell, Jarred Vanderbilt, Malik Beasley and Mo Bamba have combined to make 379 3-pointers this season. Los Angeles as a team have made 586. That’s not going to do nothing. My only concern will be how Russell impacts their greatest strength: getting the ball out in transition. Without looking at the stats, he’s the anti-Russell Westbrook when it comes to bringing the ball up. He’s more calm and collected as opposed to his predecessor’s angry, erratic style. But hey, the Lakers upgraded their roster while LeBron is still (yes, still) in his prime. Rob Pelinka deserves a little bit of credit, even if it was cleaning up the mess he made.
Alex: I won’t attempt to be different and just say Durant to the Suns. Good on them for picking a lane. Obviously things were not going great this year compared to the standards they’ve set in previous years, but roughly the same team made the Finals just two years ago. So the options at this deadline were pretty much “get way better” or “start blowing it up.” They went with the former, and I think there’s a decent chance they start looking like the favorites in a very wide-open West now.
Which team should be the most ashamed for what they did or didn’t do at the deadline?
Miranda: The Nets. Watch your feet the next few days; you’ll practically be tripping over different media people fawning over Brooklyn’s additions, claiming, as always, that anything and everything that happens to the Nets is actually a good thing. Don’t fall for it.
The Nets have enjoyed all the benefits that come with being a NYC sports team with none of the downside. Quoth Galatsaaray: Welcome to hell. Brooklyn practically threw itself a parade after winning the race for Durant and Irving, then traded a half-decade of draft picks to add James Harden a year later. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars and were besmirched and belittled ever after, and even after: after arriving in Dallas, Kyrie said he felt “disrespected” while in Brooklyn and wanted out his first year there. The Nets signed KD and Kyrie each to four-year deals in 2019. We’re not even through four years, everybody’s left and the final tally shows the Nets’ Big 3 won seven playoff games and made five trade requests. You taste that, Brooklyn? That’s shame. Own it. Choke on it.
Drew: It’s the Nets, without question or hesitation. I’m going to assume most of my colleagues will discuss all the reasons why, so I am going to go in another direction because why the hell not? The Toronto Raptors, specifically Masai Ujiri, should feel some shame. This is the second time in the four seasons since winning the title where they have had a losing record. This past offseason when KD asked to be traded, Scottie Barnes was off the table for the Raptors. If that is the case and you have a losing record in a very competitive Eastern Conference, why are you trading to bring back Jakob Poetl? Poetl is fine, but the end goal of this season is the play-in round? Toronto should have been sellers and began to rebuild around Barnes if they have that much faith in him. Now they are just directionless with most of their core guys becoming free agents over the next two summers. Terrible “plan” from someone who’s considered one of the best basketball minds in the NBA.
Shwinnypooh: Brooklyn. Anybody telling you otherwise is carrying water for Sean Marks. There are no caveats, no ifs, ands, or buts. This is not just a historic NBA failure, but one that has little comparison across sports given the importance of in-prime stars in basketball. From the moment Marks took over we were inundated with countless tales of how great the organization was, how they took care of their players and families, and how all of this created a strong internal culture that was the driving force of the greatest 7th-seed run in NBA history when they made the playoffs in 2019.
Then at the first chance they had to cash in all that equity, no matter the cost, they’d built up for superstars like Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, they pounced.
Want us to give your washed buddy DeAndre Jordan 4 year, $40 million? Done.
Fire Kenny Atkinson because he kept starting Jarrett Allen over DAJ? You got it.
Hire a novice head coach in Steve Nash, because you don’t want to be coached? No problem.
Trade everything we had left of value aside from you two to get James Harden? Sure thing.
Put up with Kyrie going AWOL during a pandemic without any explanation? Fine with us.
I can go on, but you get the point. You don’t get to hand the keys over to a pair of stars, one in Kyrie who had already shown an acute ability to inject misery while destabilizing a franchise before departing on his merry way at his previous stop in Boston, and then divorce yourself from the consequences. Also fucking spare me the “bad luck” argument. Durant stepped on the line instead of taking a three at the end of regulation in game 7 of a second-round series. Then they got spanked in overtime. That’s not bad luck, that’s a failure to capitalize on opportunity, something this franchise specialized in for three-and-a-half years.
They fucked up on an unimaginable scale. And they deserved it. Fuck the Nets and fuck Sean Marks.
Collin: I hate the Brooklyn Nets as much as anybody — well, maybe not Shwin — but in terms of grand disappointments, the Portland Trail Blazers gave them a run for their money. A quick review of what they “pulled off” while Damian Lillard is averaging A CAREER-HIGH in points per game, and they’re bracing for what sounds like will be a tough free agency pitch to last summer’s blockbuster acquisition, Jerami Grant:
OUTGOING: Josh Hart, Gary Payton II, two second-round picks
INCOMING: Cam Reddish and Kevin Knox (lol), Matisse Thybulle, Ryan Arcidiacono, New York’s 2023 first-round pick, and five second-round picks
That’s fucking pathetic, man. No matter where you rank Damian Lillard in terms of stardom, this franchise is epically failing him in year 11 at age 32. He may refuse to run from the grind, but Joe Cronin and company are trying their damndest to call his bluff.
Alex: Quiet, Collin, I’m trying to catch a copium contact high from across the river. It’s obviously the Nets.
