Recap: Pistons 99, Knicks 91 — “Good to see us running the end of the game Randle offense”
The Knicks put up a dud in their second preseason game, though RJ Barrett was a force, and the team did manage to pull off a fake comeback. Stacy Patton breaks down the Knicks’ second outing of the 2020 preseason.
Following an encouraging showing on Friday night against the Pistons, the Knicks returned to face the same foe. Much to the chagrin of many Knicks fans, the starting lineup remained the same, as did the myriad issues plaguing the starting lineup.
In 2020, the Knicks are starting three subpar shooters at the point guard, small forward, and power forward spots, plus a non-shooting center (who is, in fairness, a suitable fit for the modern NBA with his rim protection and versatility). The lack of spacing was clear from the get-go, as the Knicks failed to get into a rhythm in half-court offense. Whether it was Julius Randle post-ups, Julius Randle drives, Elfrid Payton pick-and-rolls, or RJ Barrett drives, it’s tough to consistently create advantages when the defense can collapse into the paint at will. In spite of this, the Knicks (namely RJ Barrett and Alec Burks) tried valiantly to force the Pistons to stay honest, but the offensive results were middling. Meanwhile, communication issues plagued the defense and Once a Prospective Knick (Can We Count Him as a Knick?) Killian Hayes ran a consistent Pistons offense, even hitting the catch-and-shoot three that was his major question mark going into the draft.
Coach Thibodeau stuck with the starting lineup at the beginning of both halves for quite some time, making his first substitutions (Dennis Smith Jr. for Elfrid Payton and Mitchell Robinson for Nerlens Noel) at about the 3-minute mark with the Knicks down seven. Communication issues on defense persisted, compounded by a stagnant offense led by DSJ, as the Pistons pushed the lead to 13 before the quarter ended. As the subs came in (Toppin for Randle, Bullock for Burks, Knox for Barrett) the tide stemmed, but the Pistons maintained a double digit lead as the Knicks’ offense floundered. Obi Toppin and Mitchell Robinson struggled to contain Jahlil Okafor and Blake Griffin, and the Knicks couldn’t get much going from outside.
Frank Ntilikina finally entered the game at the 8-minute mark of the second quarter, but the Knicks were unable to cut into the lead. Immanuel Quickley saw time as well, and quickly (ha) had his “welcome to the NBA” moment when he fouled OAKAAK Wayne Ellington on a 3-point attempt. He did have a nice put-back after rebounding his own miss on his favored floater. The Pistons expanded their lead, but Obi Toppin made his first NBA 3-pointer (above the break!) to cut the lead to 12. The Pistons failed to pull away despite some nice penetration from Derrick Rose, and a Julius Randle 3-pointer at the buzzer cut the halftime lead to 10.
Out of the break, RJ Barrett and Alec Burks came alive to bring the Knicks back. Burks’ outside shooting and RJ’s penetration ability opened opportunities for the rest of the offense, and some actual ball movement (!) took place, getting everyone involved. It’s difficult not to notice Burks as the Knicks’ pre-eminent floor spacer right now; and RJ has added a nice midrange pull-up to his game, though his long-range shooting is still a work in progress. That said, Barrett gave the Knicks the lead with a catch-and-shoot 3, and the Knicks would push the lead to four on a pair of Julius Randle free throws. When Randle makes quick decisions and focuses on getting to the rim or catch-and-shooting, his offensive talent is evident. Mitchell Robinson came into the game and immediately had problems dealing with Sekou Doumbouya’s inside-out game on offense and his athleticism on defense. Mitch has had issues with these small-ball bigs with lower center of gravity and athleticism to match him (Montrezl Harrell comes to mind) in the past, and it was on display tonight. Not his night.
Still, the Knicks entered the fourth quarter with the game tied, and considering how poorly they had played in the first half, it was encouraging for them to have a chance to win. But it was for naught as once again: Smith Jr., Knox, and Toppin failed to consistently open opportunities in the Pistons’ defense. Randle coming in for DSJ did not help matters, as Doumbouya continued to torment the Knicks, blocking shots and scrambling on defense while distorting the Knicks’ defense with his spacing and athleticism to get to the rim. Defensive communication issues — particularly amongst the bigs — plagued the Knicks, as the Pistons opened up a 9-point lead. Ntilikina and Quickley came in, with Quickley getting an opportunity to run point, but the Knicks struggled to get into any kind of offensive flow.
And that’s pretty much all she wrote. It was nice to see Quickley get minutes after not playing in the first game, and the Knicks had good activity on defense, but the lack of an offensive identity was clear.
Individual player notes
— RJ Barrett had a terrific game. Although the 3-point shot hasn’t been falling, his midrange game looks quite good. He ranked in the 64th percentile in pull-up jumpers at Duke (shoutout to Theo Sands) in a similarly cramped spacing situation, and he seems to be getting more comfortable on those. It’s worth noting that midrange shooting can often be a harbinger of better 3-point shooting; notably, Brandon Ingram was an adept midrange shooter before his third year, in which he broke out. This applies to an extent with Kawhi Leonard as well, who didn’t take many threes in college but was an excellent shooter out of the post and in the midrange.
More notably, though, he consistently found lanes to the rim and earned five free throw attempts, making four. He did have four turnovers, but his passing continues to impress, as he uses the attention he draws in the paint to find open shooters and cutters. Tough not to be encouraged by his performance in both games. RJ is a weird developmental fit for the Knicks, because he’s clearly capable of being more than just a secondary playmaker, but isn’t quite up to the task of being a primary offensive engine, so getting him the right mix of opportunities for both his development and still helping the Knicks’ offense hum (or at least sputter minimally) is a tightrope walk that will be worth watching as the season goes on.
— Hello, Alec Burks. Fifteen points on 5-9 shooting (3-5 from three) along with two assists to zero turnovers understates his impact as the sole floor spacer and 3-point pull-up option in the starting lineup. He bailed out numerous desperation kick-outs from RJ, Randle, and Payton, and showed some creation ability. I’ve been banging this drum all offseason, but in 2020, the Knicks’ offense sorely lacks perimeter players who can create their own shot at three levels and distribute. Burks is the closest thing they have to that kind of player. He’s not a point guard and may not be the kind of guy you can run your offense around, but his creation and shooting ability can elevate an offense. Whether he can display all of it may depend on whether he can get away from playing in lineups with three ball-dominant players where he’s asked to stand in the corner and wait for kick-outs. I’m particularly intrigued to see if his pull-up gravity can open short roll playmaking opportunities for Obi Toppin if they get more minutes together. He has the size and vision to make that pass consistently.
— Obi Toppin came down to Earth after a high-flying debut. He did hit a nice 3-pointer, and his confidence in letting it fly (along with his form) has been encouraging, but it wasn’t falling today and he struggled massively with Griffin and Doumbouya on defense. In addition, he had a bad turnover when he put his head down and had the ball stripped. I emphasized from his college film and the first preseason game that one thing that mitigated his not-great handle as a creator was that he always tries to keep his head up and force defense to account for a bunch of possibilities. Continuing to do that will help him a lot as the rest of his game develops. Still, he was active, and I’d rather see him go 1-6 from three like he did tonight than shun those for paint-clogging turnovers and wasted possessions after passing up good looks.
— Rough game for Mitchell Robinson. Single-game plus-minus is often a misleading stat, but it’s worth noting he was a team-worst -16 while Nerlens Noel was a +10. It was all the familiar issues. Failure to communicate on defense, five fouls in 16 minutes, and poor point guard play limiting his impact as a lob threat (though he still managed eight points on 4-6 shooting) was a bad recipe. Discipline and being a vocal leader for the defense are big areas for growth right now.
— Frank Ntilikina went 1-3 from the field (1-2 from three) and didn’t do much of note, as he wasn’t given many opportunities to run the offense. His defensive activity and communication is rare on this team right now, and he’s earned more minutes, but it’s clear the Knicks don’t view him as a point guard at this point (even opting for Quickley to run the offense when the two were on the floor together). The shot looks better, though. I’d like to see him let it fly more and show an aggression more similar to the first game, where he was looking to frequently attack the paint off closeouts. Still, if Tom Thibodeau is going to ask his 3 to have two feet in the paint while simultaneously being able to close out on shooters/zone two at once, Frank would be best equipped to do that, especially if he can provide adequate spacing. I’m not trying to be a Frank stan, but it’s tough to see Thibodeau being able to implement his defensive scheme while providing some functional spacing without playing Frank, especially if he can be at above 35% from three (looking at his free throw shooting, mid-range shooting last year, and improved form so far this year and over the summer — I don’t think this is outlandish).
— Rough game for Kevin Knox. The fact is, while he has improved his defense, he still has many communication issues, and as a 3 he isn’t quite quick enough to both help in the paint and close out on shooters, even when his reads are correct. Continuing to improve his feel will help, but it’s tough to see him being better at this than Frank. Is he really a 3? I don’t know, but nights where he goes 1-6 from the field and 0-2 from three are not going to be add much in his ledger. Perhaps his contract situation will earn him minutes at the 3 over Frank when Rivers comes back, but I think long-term he’s a 4 and a certain trade of a player I won’t name would open more minutes for him (and another young Knick on a rookie deal) at his most natural position.
— Not much to go on for Immanuel Quickley. Liked his energy, but he’s not a point guard, and if the Knicks are going to play him with Frank, I’d rather see him used as a movement shooter coming off screens than running the offense. That is his best skill and where he can have the most impact off the bat. Bring his creation along slowly, playing off of that off-ball shooting gravity in double hand-offs and attacking after getting his step on a defender off a curl/flare/action.
— Dennis Smith Jr. is trying. He’s trying to get his teammates involved, he’s trying not to stop the ball, and he’s playing with energy on defense. But the offense stagnates with him out there in the half court. He struggles to get the team into its offenses and many possessions devolve into an iso, a contested pull-up, or a late-clock shot. He will always be intriguing because of his combination of athleticism and handle, but he just isn’t an NBA point guard right now. I don’t know what Thibs will do, but he would be the logical odd man out when Austin Rivers comes back. DSJ shot 1-5 and 0-2 from three with the third-worst plus-minus at -15.
— Julius Randle. Can’t live with him… well there’s some debate on the second part of that statement. The dude can shoot. The dude can finish. He shows the ability to make reads and set people up with the attention he draws. But he creates a heliocentric offense around him. Randle did have 18 points and some legitimately nice passes he created (even in the half court), but on 17 shot equivalents and with five turnovers. Randle is a litmus test for how the Knicks want to play. Sure, he can create offense in hopeless situations and has more talent than nearly everyone else on the roster. But his style of play is not conducive to spreading the ball around, forcing the defense to account for all 5 guys, and playing with lots of player and ball movement. I’d argue this season is more about implementing a style of play than actual high-octane results, and if the Knicks do want to play that way (as evidenced by some really nice ball movement from the second unit in the first game), he will have to get on board with the program. How Thibs handles him will be something to watch. He can’t be benched, but can you get him to embrace a more motion-oriented style of play? If so, it gives the Knicks more lineup flexibility and will help the kids. Also worth noting that Randle was a culprit on many Pistons drives and open shots on which he failed to rotate or communicate.
— Nerlens Noel had 10 rebounds in 20 minutes and had a team-high +10. His energy, cutting, and vertical gravity is a boon on offense, as is his rim deterrence and mobility on defense. Right now, he has earned the starting job over Mitch. Also only two personal fouls. Small sample, but he’s done a better job of avoiding silly fouls and contesting vertically than Mitch.
That’s all I got! The Knicks have two more preseason games against the Cleveland Cavaliers on Wednesday, Dec. 16 and Friday, Dec. 18 (Robert Randolph, where you at). Thibs will tinker with these lineups and hopefully stagger some of the ball-dominant players with limited shooting. In particular, I think featuring Alec Burks as a creator along with some guys like Frank and RJ — who are better at attacking already-scrambling offenses — could open a lot of things up. As felinequickness said: “Good to see us running the end of game Randle offense.” That’s an apt description of much of the night, and that is ultimately an indictment not just of Julius Randle, but the entire team in creating an offensive flow with adequate spacing and quick decisions.
